Pop Culturalist Chats with Sarah Ann Masse

Sarah Ann Masse has forged her own path as a versatile actor, writer, and producer in New York City and Los Angeles. But as an artist and survivor, she tells stories with a purpose: Masse uses her gift for comedy to uplift, challenge ideas about gender norms, and educate her audience about how power structures shape society.

Masse and her husband, British actor Nick Afka Thomas, started the comedy duo We Are Thomasse as a way to share their unique, cross-cultural perspective. Their comedy videos routinely rack up millions of views on sites like Funny or Die as they boldly, hilariously tackle issues ranging from consent to the feminist fails of beloved fairytales.

Pop Culturalist recently spoke with Masse about her creative mission, the trouble with Disney movies, and why the American Revolution was one of the most epic breakups in history.

PC: How did you and your husband decide to form We Are Thomasse and create digital videos?
Sarah: Before my husband and I met, we were both actors and bonded over acting and theater. He had been writing comedy sketches from when he was a teenager, but I was not writing at the time. But within a week of meeting each other, we had started coming up with ideas for characters for what became a web series. Through that process, I realized that I had a skill for finding characters’ voices and dialogue– but I was very insecure about structure. I had never taken a writing class; I had never read a screenwriting book, so I hung in the background for a while. But as we continued to work together [I became more confident]. Nick always had this dream of having a sketch comedy group. I was a producer and director of a theater comedy for four years in New York, so I thought it wouldn’t be that hard to put something together. Over the years, we started rewriting some of his old sketches and then writing brand new sketches together. I started growing more confident.

We decided to submit to a sketch comedy festival in New York at the end of 2014, and we got in. It was supposed to be a 25-minute slot– and we got through our set in 17 minutes. That was our first hint that our material was really quick. [Then] we did a festival down in North Carolina, where a scout from LA saw us and invited us to do this festival in LA at iO West. We did the festival, and they said, “Any time you’re in LA, we’d like you to be on our main stage.” So we kept going back and forth between New York and LA. We realized that the momentum for us was in LA and moved there. We had a meeting with a manager who said to us, “Your stuff is great; but you only have four sketches online. You need more online.” The producer in me was like, “Okay!” I found people who wanted to make comedy, and we spent six months filming over two dozen sketches. So we started releasing videos every other week. Funny or Die picked up one of the first videos we ever put out, and it took off from there.

PC: It sounds like that process helped you develop your voice as a writer, too.
Sarah: Yes, it was very empowering. I’ve had an interesting journey in this career. There were things that happened to me early on that pushed me away from the industry– it had to do with power dynamics and abuses of power and feeling very afraid to put myself in that vulnerable position as an actor. So I stuck to indie theater with people I knew and trusted for a long time, producing, making sure I was in a position of power myself. Finding that I was a good writer really empowered me to start creating my own work in a very different way, and it has allowed me to do what I’ve always wanted to do: use any platform and creative voice I have to put positive messaging into the world. I’ve been intimately involved with the #MeToo movement; I came forward about my own powerful abuser early last year. One thing I always say is that our industry is unique in its ability to change and create the culture and society that we live in. So, if different stories are being told, if different voices are telling those stories, we can really change the fact that we live in a patriarchal rape culture; we can change the fact that we live in this racist society in the way that we do now. People are shaped by the media that they take in.

PC: A good example of that is your series Feminist Fairytales, which is a smart critique of the fairytales we’ve all grown up with. Where did the idea for the series come from?
Sarah: I’ve always been a huge Disney fan. But I’m also a woman who has faced a lot of harassment and assault in this patriarchal rape culture that we live in. For me, I could enjoy the [Disney] movies and the stories while realizing where the problems were. But while I was a nanny for 10 years, I realized that not all kids were processing how problematic these messages were. So I had an audition for a sketch team back in New York several years ago, and I had to write some character monologues for myself. I had this idea for a retelling of fairytales in which the misogyny was highlighted without tearing it down completely. My idea was to have a little girl tell the story. So when we started filming sketches, I realized I could write a hundred of these. They’re based off the Disney tellings of these stories, which I think are the most commonly known in the current zeitgeist. Snow White and Cinderella were incredibly easy to write: there’s a lot of problematic consent issues and the idea of putting all your value as a woman into if a man wants you. But by the time I got to Tangled, which is the Rapunzel story from Disney, it became harder to find the misogynistic elements. It made me feel really encouraged. I was realizing that the stories, and the way they were told, were a product of their time. The further back you go, the more problematic the stories are. In Tangled, the main love story is actually quite healthy. The misogyny and patriarchy comes from the female villain, who controls Rapunzel by gaslighting her about her weight, looks, value, and intelligence. So it was interesting to write that one and find a different angle on how these stories are still perpetrating these dangerous messages.

“Finding that I was a good writer really empowered me to start creating my own work in a very different way, and it has allowed me to do what I’ve always wanted to do: use any platform and creative voice I have to put positive messaging into the world.”

PC: You’ve been very outspoken about the #MeToo movement, especially since you’ve been courageous enough to share your own story. What kind of changes would you like to see in the industry?
Sarah: Right now there’s still just a lot of talk and not a huge amount of action. I think there needs to be more women in positions of power. There needs to be more diversity of the people who are in positions of power. It’s not about taking away the ability for straight, white men to work in the industry; it’s just that people who have been making the decisions and leading the industry for so long have been the same group of people, and it isn’t working in terms of creating a safe, equitable, healthy environment. I also think it holds back creativity. There are so many people who have interesting stories to tell that aren’t getting the opportunity to do it. My dream at some point down the road is to start a survivor-run production company. It’s not just that I want survivors to be able to tell their survivor stories– I want survivors to be able to have the careers that were taken away from them. Many of us either got actively pushed out or stepped away [from the industry] due to fear or trauma or were blacklisted. I’m facing that now. I didn’t speak for a decade, due to fear for my career, my life, and my safety, and that kept me out of the industry. Now that I’m speaking out, there are still people who don’t like it. So a lot of us are having to fight against that. There needs to be better representation on screen and behind the camera from all populations. It’s certainly not a problem just within our industry– I see it everywhere. But we are the ones who tells stories. Our industry is the place where culture is being created. So we need to change the culture from within our own industry. That’s the most powerful way that we can impact things. People need to step up and be brave when they’re in positions of power and give chances to people who haven’t been given as many opportunities and allow those voices to develop and soar.

I always want whatever work I create to be funny, and I never want it to be negative. It’s really important to both my husband and me that we don’t punch down. We’re not mean-spirited about the comedy we do. But it’s important that it contains some messaging, too. Not every single sketch I write is a commentary on society and equality. But it’s always entertaining and it’s educational on some level. The stuff that we do about women’s rights issues, I think, are really important. We’ve been able to reach audiences that you wouldn’t normally reach with this kind of material. We have a diverse audience: right-wing Republicans, left-wing Democrats, grandmothers, 13-year-old boys, people who are religious, people who are atheist. Part of that is because we do a lot of history comedy, too, so we’ve drawn in people from that kind of world, and then they’ll watch our feminist stuff. Sometimes they’ll get angry about it. But most of the time, they’re seeing things from a different perspective than they normally would. Because of comedy and because laughing breaks down people’s barriers, the message is able to get in. We’re never going to do a Trump or Obama sketch. It’s not our style. We’re not trying to pander to our audience. It’s just that we tend to prefer to do things that are more accessible and less divisive, while not ignoring the important message that needs to come across.

PC: Are there any positive changes that you’ve seen in the wake of #MeToo?
Sarah: One of the biggest positive changes is that we are now having a conversation about this. We’re starting to talk about things like consent, coercion, trauma. These are the conversations we really need to be having in order to make changes. I’ve talk to people who work in the criminal justice system, and they said they can get people into court and have charges pressed against them, but unless the jury is trauma-informed and understands what coercion and consent are, convictions don’t always happen. There’s still people who believe that unless you say no and scream and scratch and kick, then it was consent. Or, people who don’t understand how power dynamics feed into coercion. People don’t understand that there isn’t just fight or flight when you’re in a traumatic situation– there’s also freeze and appease. But the fact that we’re starting to have those conversations on a broad scale is really important. There’s still a lot of pushback, but we’re getting there. Another thing is that we’ve been able to connect with each other as survivors. We don’t feel as alone. There are communities where we can go and talk, and not have to explain ourselves, because we’ve been through similar situations.

“We are the ones who tells stories. Our industry is the place where culture is being created. So we need to change the culture from within our own industry.”

PC: Since representation in popular culture plays a critical role in shaping ideas about gender, what do you think is a great piece of film, literature, television, or theater that you would encourage everyone to see or read to refine their notion about gender?
Sarah: If you go to the We Are Women playlist and watch the 15 sketches that are there, you will have a really good education on things like power dynamics, victim blaming, misogyny, and gender norms. We’re working actively towards creating entertaining media that educates on gender, stereotypes, and misogyny. I think This Is Us does a good job of exploring people as people, rather than as whatever gender, race, or age they’re supposed to be, or how they’re supposed to be behaving. Glow has good female-centered storytelling that addresses the deep, deep layers of misogyny that exist in the world they’re playing within. I also really enjoyed watching Jane the Virgin, which has four wonderful female characters at the center of it who are complex, complicated, and have a lot of interaction with each other that has nothing to do with men; it just has to do with their relationship as women, existing in this world together. I think that’s really beautiful.

PC: Awkward Exes is another clever series that you’ve put together. It’s a modern, romantic spin on history. What was your inspiration for it?
Sarah: I am half of a British-American couple. Two weeks before July 4, 2016, we thought we should put out a Fourth of July video: it’s Britain and America– it’s kind of perfect for us! We were brainstorming, and Nick said, “I remember I had an idea where Britain comes back to America. He’s a father figure and says, ‘I like what you’ve done with the place– you’ve knocked down a few walls!'” But then I said, “I have a better idea! It’s not a father and daughter; it’s a couple. They’re exes, and he shows up at her birthday party, which is the Fourth of July, and it’s super awkward.” I wrote the first page and a half in three minutes, and I showed it to Nick. He thought it was great and wrote the next page and a half. We finished it together and had the final draft within an hour of coming up with the idea. I then pulled a bunch of people together from our friend group and got a crew. We put the video up, and it got 2.5 million views in four days. It was crazy! It was completely organic, completely viral. When we saw the response, we realized we had hit on something that our audience loved. So it has been easy to continue that series. The next year we did America serving divorce papers to Britain on the 4th of July 1776. We just did a World War I video with Germany and America. We could go on and on forever and ever because history is history– it exists, the facts are there, the relationships between these countries are there, and it is easy to play it out like it’s the dynamics of a romantic relationship, because it is– the history between different countries is big, petty, and emotionally complex. We both are huge, huge history nerds, so it’s really fun for us. We’ve had a lot of teachers write to us and say, “I showed this in my high school class.” We love that what we’re doing has been able to excite people about history or women’s studies or whatever it is. There are things that can feel dry and inaccessible, and they shouldn’t. They are very exciting, and if we can find a way to tap into that for young people, it’s a thrill.

Pop Culturalist Speed Round

Favorite Movie
Today I’m going to say That Thing You Do!

Favorite Book
Pride and Prejudice

Favorite Play or Musical
1776. It’s so close between that and Les Misérables, but it’s 1776.

Artist or Musician You Could Listen to on Repeat
Jason Mraz, which is the awkward answer, because he’s also one of my very good friends. But it’s true. He’s so funny and very culturally and socially active, and his music is beautiful. It’s great to collaborate with someone who is so creative.

Place You Most Want to Visit
Fiji

Person You’d Like to Meet, Dead or Alive
I can’t decide between Joan of Arc or John Adams. I feel like my personality and doggedness about things that I think are right come from my admiration of them as a small child.

Hidden Talent
I think I do a good chicken impression. I don’t know if my husband agrees with me, but I think I do!

You can catch We Are Thomasse live in Los Angeles at monthly shows at Second City Hollywood

Make sure to follow Sarah on Twitter and Instagram! Keep up with We Are Thomasse on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube!

Photo Credit: Marie Buck Photography