Exclusive Interview: Pop Culturalist Chats with The Order’s Thomas Elms

For two seasons, Thomas Elms has brought order to the Knights of Saint Christopher as Hamish Duke in Netflix’s must-see supernatural drama The Order. The experience has taught the talented up-and-comer how to come into his own, working alongside an ensemble that not only challenges him creatively but also pushes him. We caught up with Thomas to learn more about his journey as an artist, Season 2 of The Order, and his unique perspective on his character’s struggle with his own mortality.

Career

PC: Take us back to the beginning. How did you discover your passion for acting?
Thomas: That’s a big question. From an early age, I’ve always had a very strong sense of imagination and fantasy. This dates back to my childhood. My family had a huge yard and a beautiful garden. My little sister and I, who is about a year younger, would use toys and imagine characters, kingdoms, and stories. I guess you could say it began there.

That carried through into my elementary and high school years. I became a class clown, mostly because I wanted the attention and I wasn’t quite sure of any other way to get it, other than making people laugh or humiliating myself. I’ve always taken a strong sense of validation and pleasure in making other people feel things. Although it may not have been maybe the most healthy developmental stage in my life, I think you could probably trace the roots back there. [laughs]

I remember very fondly my first day in high school. There was a musical production of Bye Bye Birdie that burst out of the front door of the school. They were doing a full song number. The drama teacher was there. They had fifty people, all in costume, doing this brilliant, incredible musical number. I remember thinking, “Wow, that’s drama, huh?” I wondered about that, and it became a place for me to go, get some attention, act silly, and get an A for it, which I thought was unbelievable. It led me down a really interesting path.

I often considered myself a bit too cool for theater and drama. I wanted to be a philosopher and an intellectual. I wanted to talk about complicated ideas. Drama became a place where I could feel safe to express myself. But about halfway through my university career, I realized that writing papers and talking about philosophy wasn’t what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I believe it was a theater history program or a fellow student of mine who encouraged me to do this, but somehow I ended up auditioning for the three-year acting conservatory program at the University of British Columbia. It was a university theater program. It wasn’t Juilliard or anything of that caliber. Those were incredibly formative years for me.

I fell in love with the craft of acting. I found something that I could devote the rest of my life to—something that I would never achieve perfection at. It was something that I loved so much that I could pour my whole self into it. Theater and acting led me to falling in love and led me to heartbreak. It led me to where I am today, which is a really interesting place in my life.

The second season of The Order just premiered. The film industry as we know it is shut down. It’s a strange time to be alive. But when I look back on it, it’s hard to quite know when this journey began for me, but I’d say it probably began at an early age. I’m very thankful that I stumbled into acting when I did because it gave me a path to charter the rest of my life with.

I thank whatever cosmic forces led me to making the decision to audition for that theater program, because I wasn’t good. I’ll tell you that. My audition for that theater program was far from perfect. I did a monologue from A Midsummer Night’s Dream and Catcher in the Rye. Both of them were five minutes longer than the allotted time allowed. I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. But they saw something in me.

Over the years, I had my ass kicked a couple of times. A good chew-out is good for someone who lacks a sense of direction. But all in all, I met my agent through that program. He put a lot of faith into a guy that had no résumé, very little credits other than some theater credits. But through the connections I made and the hard work that I put in, I got my foot in the door with my agent and I never looked back. It’s been a very happy, fun working relationship ever since. It led to some incredible opportunities like The Order, which has been the highlight of my career thus far. I couldn’t be more thankful for theater and that acting program for allowing me to step into the role of who I am now as Thomas.

PC: That’s a great answer. Who or what has had the biggest influence on your career?
Thomas: That’s a really good question. Personally, the person who has had the most influence in my career would probably be the many teachers and coaches that I’ve relied on to guide me to the place where I am now. I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m someone who seeks advice from as many people as I can.

As far as role models go, I could list off my actor crushes at the moment, which there are dozens. But for me, it’s about finding a good mentor, tutor, and teacher. It’s about finding someone who is willing to kick your butt when you need it and give you the hard truth when you need it but also groom you on this path. I’d say I owe it to every single teacher in my theater program, every single teacher at my acting school that I currently train at. I have so many people that I need to thank and would like to thank for where I am right now.

I’m most inspired by the cast of The Order. They’ve become a little acting family. I’m unbelievably fortunate that I was accepted into a cast of equally humble, hardworking, driven, talented individuals. It’s such an uplifting feeling. You can experience so much growth when you act in an ensemble that not only challenges you but also makes you feel like you have the permission to try things—to experiment.

I remember filming the first season of The Order. It took me about a month and a half before I finally relaxed into the body of Hamish. I relaxed into the character of Hamish in a way that I was able to make some exciting choices. Working with actors like Jake Manley, Adam DiMarco, Devery Jacobs, not only were they a bit more experienced, they allowed me to relax a bit more.

When I say “relax,” I mean there’s a state of preparedness that actors or anyone in a career where you’re experienced to make quick decisions in the moment needs: being able to be relaxed, ready to adapt, and make quick decisions—truly listening to something or someone.

These are all things that I’ve known in theory, but you only get a chance to try it out when you’re a part of that ensemble. If you don’t happen to be fortunate enough to find a cast like I fell into with The Order, I’d say it’s up to you to surround yourself with people—like-minded individuals who will challenge and push you.

Photo Credit: Kyrani Kanavaros

The Order

PC: Like you were saying earlier, The Order was a breakout TV role for you. What’s been the biggest takeaway from this experience thus far?
Thomas: Wow, that’s a fantastic question as well. To be honest, I’d say relaxation is probably one of the most important skills that an actor can have in their repertoire. When I say relaxation, I don’t mean meditating to the point where you almost fall asleep or being so loose in your body that you’re like a wet noodle. It took me a while to really understand that it’s a state of preparedness. It’s a state of readiness and preparedness for whatever may come, like someone throwing you a curveball when you’re expecting a straight pitch. It’s a certain ability to let go of the choices that perhaps you brought into the room.

One of the biggest takeaways from working on The Order was letting go of that preciousness of how do I do this right? How do I say this particular line of dialogue in a way that is correct, as if acting is some sort of exam or test, where there are wrong answers and right answers?

Now, that’s not to say that there aren’t bad choices that an actor can make, particularly if you aren’t prepared or you haven’t taken the time to do your homework or put the work in that’s essential to the craft. I’m very fortunate that I came from a background of doing a lot of homework. Maybe it’s because I went through a university program, so I’m used to writing essays, papers, and thinking about things from an intellectual standpoint. All that is fine and great, but when you’re in the moment and when you step onto a TV set and you’re being asked to play this character, what’s really being demanded of you is that you are expected to be the expert on this person.

That’s something that I didn’t quite grasp until about midway through the first season. There’s no right or wrong answers in acting, but if you aren’t showing up on that day, and if you aren’t the absolute authority on your character—who they are, how they view the world, and how they interact with it—then truthfully, you don’t deserve to be there. For me, it was learning how to be fully prepared so that I could walk on set and anything could happen, whether it’s Jake has an idea and he wants to say a line differently and it ends up being funny. We roll with that.

Something as minor as that or as major as me wanting to discuss the motivation behind my character with a writer and the writer saying, “Actually, that’s a really interesting point of view, Thomas. I hadn’t considered that about Hamish.” But then they tell you that actually that’s not the decision we’d like to make with this character. You, as the artist, need to be willing to accept creative input from other sources and not get too precious about your own ideas. You also need to be able to say, “Okay, that was the idea that I pitched. It’s not going to work for this particular moment or this scene. That’s okay. I can let go of that, and I can still give a performance that feels truthful from my own experience.” But also, you’re not going to feel like you have this ego that needs to dictate what choices you make or how you say that line because your way is right and you’re not going to give a damn what anybody else thinks. It’s really the process of collaboration that I think has been the biggest lesson for me in this whole experience. I’m so tremendously happy for it.

Photo Credit: Betinna Strauss/Netflix

PC: In Season 2, we get to see the lines blurred between the Knights of Saint Christopher and the Order. How did that change your approach to Hamish?
Thomas: That’s a cool question. In Season 1, there was so much universe that we were trying to establish. There was so much mythology and sense of antiquity. You’re dealing with a magical secret society that’s been around since the dawn of time. It’s a bit like Harry Potter. You’re having to introduce people to a magical world that plays by a different set of rules than our reality.

For Hamish, one of the things that always struck me as being an interesting focal point for the character was this sense of mortality—this sense of death and destiny. We get a glimpse of that in the first season when he says, “I’m on my third bachelor degree. I’m pretty much geriatric.” He’s twenty-seven or twenty-eight, but he considers himself geriatric because the life expectancy of a knight is depressingly low. They don’t have the greatest life expectancy hunting down rogue practitioners.

For me, this idea of Hamish is this sense of how do you go about your day knowing that you are supernaturally gifted—that if someone stabs you with a knife or breaks a beer bottle over your head, that you’re not going to have a problem? But you know when you wake up and you go to bed every day knowing that the grains of sand in the hourglass have run out for you. It’s just a matter of time. It’s a matter of time before you make a mistake or you slip up or someone catches you or, as he says, “you get hit by a car.”

So going into Season 2 and knowing that relationship that Hamish has with death, I thought it was really interesting to see how he’s begun to cross over into, I guess you could say, enemy lines. He’s developed a relationship with Vera Stone, which made sense to me. It might be a secret to everyone else, including himself, but he’s looking for a way to survive. He’s looking for a way to cheat death. He knows that the odds are stacked against him. It’s not like he can walk away from being a knight. The only way out is death. That’s the only way out and he knows that.

From a purely strategic survival point of view, if you’re that person, you seek as many resources as you can. If you discover that there’s a magical secret society that could potentially give you the ability to cheat death, it’s an interesting power move that he’s taken, developing this relationship with a powerful practitioner, someone who is the leader of this organization. We can see at the end of Season 2, he’s installed himself in a bit of a power position.

If we’re talking about flood insurance or trying to take action to prevent some disaster in the future, it makes sense the path that Hamish takes in Season 2. I’m very excited to see where we go next season. Fingers crossed that there will be a Season 3.

PC: I love that perspective! Like you were saying in Season 1, we’re establishing this world. In Season 2, we’re seeing these new relationships form. Which was your favorite to explore and why?
Thomas: That’s a great question. The groundwork has been laid in the first season, and you had these distinct battle lines. You have the Knights and you have the Order. That was very black and white. What’s so cool about getting to be a part of Season 2 is that you get to see these relationships start to branch off in individual ways.

It was very much the story of Jack throughout much of Season 1. Everyone else was orbiting around him and Alyssa’s relationship, whereas now you get to see these wonderful relationships start to form, such as the one between Randall and Gabrielle, Louriza [Tronco] and Adam’s character, which I thought was so much fun and so beautiful. They have such an interesting dynamic that contrasts each other, but at the same time, they do complement each other in a way.

All these beautiful little relationships we would never get to experience if we hadn’t made it to the second season. Personally, I will always love the interaction with the wolf pack: Jake, Adam, and Devery. Not only have they been great professionally, they’ve been good friends. They’ve helped me come into my own as an actor on this show. I couldn’t be more thankful for their help and their support.

As far as relationships go, I loved acting with Katie Isabelle. Coming from Vancouver, being a Canadian actor, you recognize that she’s a legend in her own right. As a human being, I couldn’t ask for a better partner. She’s hilarious. She’s very down to earth. She doesn’t have an ego. She has a great sense of humor and a professional attitude, on and off set. Once the cameras start rolling and you’re doing a scene with her, wow, she’s a powerhouse. She doesn’t back down, and she brings it every scene.

For me, it was a good challenge to be able to step up and hold my own. There’s something that an old acting teacher told me that I’ve never forgotten. He said, “Thomas, when you’re off stage, you’re the nicest person in the world, right? You treat everyone with politeness and respect. But when those cameras are rolling, you got to put up a fight. You got to fight.”

For Hamish, it’s about figuring out what he wants with this relationship. There’s an obvious physical attraction there, but what are the deeper elements at play? In a strange way, they kind of complement each other. We’ll see where that goes. Hopefully, as the relationship expands, we get to learn more about Vera’s past, her history, and what her motivations are. I think that we’ve set us up for a fun power dynamic next season—should it come! I think that would be interesting to see.

Photo Credit: Daniel Power/Netflix

PC: In true Order fashion, Season 2 ends with some major cliffhangers. If you could pitch a storyline for Hamish, what would it be?
Thomas: I’m excited to see how the relationship between the Knights change with the new season, because what you get at the end of Season 2 is different than how we left Season 1.

In Season 2, you see all these old alliances and friendships. They’ve started to crack and trickle off into their own little realms. You could see that there was a lot of tension and friction between the Knights towards the end of the season. There’s questions of loyalty. Has Hamish gone over to the other side? What does that even mean? Is there another side?

Hamish has installed himself in a position of power. Whether or not the rest of the society itself will accept his newfound position is something that has yet to be revealed. He’s obviously a very calculated, cerebral guy. He overthinks. That’s probably one of his strengths and weaknesses. It’s all theory and not a lot of action, or action after much theory.

I’m excited for Hamish to step into his role as more of a practitioner of magic. In Season 1, Hamish felt the responsibility of keeping everyone else in the group alive. I thought that was a really interesting dynamic to the character. Often you see people taking the piss out of Hamish. They’ll make fun of him.

He’s an easy character to make fun of because he’s a bit weird. He’s stuck out of time. He has these strange outfits. He seems like a bit of a loner character, even within the society of the Knights. So now he’s almost broken those times. The Knights have assimilated into the Order. Hamish has a whole new set of problems on his hand and he’s trying to make alliances.

There’s this tension between the Knights themselves. We’ve got the death of Alyssa at the end of Season 2. These alliances are fracturing. We’re seeing these little splinter relationships start to build. Jack walks off into the mist with Alyssa and he’s carrying the Book of the Armageddon and what he has to do. It’ll probably lead to a lot of problems. There’s a lot of possibilities.

PC: Hamish is known for his way around the bar. If you could make a signature cocktail for him, what would it be and what would you call it?
Thomas: Whoa. Wow. That’s a really good question. Hamish’s signature cocktail would be something that would have a very strong traditional history. He seems to me like a guy who believes in tradition to the point where it’s become his identity. You’ve got that really nice scene in Season 1 where Hamish tells Jack, “Look. It’s probably not going to work with you and Alyssa. I’ve tried it before. Trust me.”

He talks about Cassie. Hamish talks about this love that he had who’s now dead. There’s a tremendous amount of grief there and sadness that he’s kept barricaded in. He keeps his cards close to his heart. As soon as you start to try and back him into a corner emotionally, he’s a master at deflecting or switching the focus of the conversation back on you so he doesn’t have to delve into those soft, sensitive areas of himself where there’s a real hurt and vulnerability. It ties back to his desire to survive and not lose anyone else. I’m not quite sure if he blames himself for the death of Cassie, but there’s a tremendous amount of sadness and grief there.

Hamish is a guy who’s stuck in the past. He has a hard time living in the present because his mind is so focused on what’s about to happen or has happened. His drink would be something like crème de cacao, or maybe some Baileys over ice—a creamy mixture—maybe with a little spice in there. I would call it a “Remembrance.”

To keep up with Thomas, follow him on Instagram. Binge-watch Season 2 of The Order today.

Photo Credit: Kyrani Kanavaros