Exclusive Interview: Director Traci Hays and Star Tammin Sursok Talk Blood, Sweat and Cheer

Director Traci Hays and star Tammin Sursok are two trailblazers within the industry who are teaming up for Tubi’s Blood, Sweat and Cheer.

The dark comedy follows a suburban divorcée who masquerades as her teenage daughter in a twisted attempt to make the dance squad at a local high school.

Pop Culturalist was lucky enough to speak with Traci and Tammin about Blood, Sweat and Cheer, how the film explores themes of loss, their collaboration, and championing one another.

PC: Blood, Sweat and Cheer hit Tubi on April 15th. What were your initial reactions when you read the script? What made each of you want to be a part of it?
Traci: I read it, and my initial reaction was, “This is such a fun, over-the-top, campy film.” It reminded me of all my favorite high school coming-of-age movies from the ’80s and ’90s. I thought it would be a great character exploration for whoever we ended up casting because it was such a fun role to play. I immediately was like, “Let’s go.”

Tammin: I’ve been very lucky in the last year that most of the movies that I’ve done have been offers. You think that’s a wonderful opportunity, and it is, but a lot of the times, the things that you get offered are things that you would never do. So, when you first get the offer, you’re like, “Okay, let’s see what this is about.” From the minute that I read it, I felt like I could inject some life into this character. Sometimes you read something on the page and it’s a great character, but you feel like you wouldn’t do it justice. I knew that there were so many levels to this character that I could play with. I love the characters you love to hate.

I was on a TV show called Pretty Little Liars, and I played a girl named Jenna. I always thought everyone hated my character, but they said, “No, we loved that you had this level of empathy, even though we still hated you.” You have to confuse people a bit and make them feel like, “Why do we like this person and feel bad for her? But she also doesn’t make all the right decisions.” I love those characters that are flawed and have so many different layers of complexity.

Traci: It’s the empathetic anti-hero in a nutshell. All the projects that I’m drawn to have these very complex, flawed female characters at the center of it. This checked all the boxes for me.

PC: Tammin, you shared in the past that this project was an opportunity to push yourself outside of your comfort zone and it required you to open up old wounds that you thought were almost healed. As an actress, how did you create the space for yourself and give yourself permission to go to those darker places?
Tammin: I worked with an acting coach, which I normally do. She was like, “We could make this what it is on the page,” which is a pretty simple, easy-to-watch film, which it is in some ways, but I think that there’s a lot more to that. I knew that I was going to have to go there, and I knew it wasn’t going to feel good because I have daughters. The idea of losing them, not just physically, but emotionally, is really hard on me as a parent.

I have a daughter who is nine. I’ve got a smaller one who is four. I see the older one shifting away from me, which is what she has to do to survive. It’s biologically ingrained within her; she has to get away from her parents so she can get into this world and put her armor on and go and fight the fight. I had to go into that feeling of what it is like to let go and imagine that. I’ve had a lot of therapy so I can let go in a way that doesn’t feel good but is healthy.

What about if you came from a background and a place where you were never seen, you were always invisible, you never mattered, and you never achieved the goals and dreams that you wanted to? What does that look like? What does that feel like when you have a daughter that is part of you that is doing so much better than you? What emotions does that bring up?

This character, I believe, was never seen. She had talents, whatever they might be, whether it was dancing or other things, and she never got to reach that full potential. There’s a lot of tragedy in that. I’ve never looked at films, like, “Well, you can phone it in.” I’m like, “What would that character…” Everything that I did on the screen was a feeling of desperation, no matter where it came from. If it showcased itself in comedy or in pain, it was always from a place of desperation.

PC: Traci, this is your second feature film. What did you learn on the set of Tangled that you wanted to make sure you brought over to this project?
Traci: So many things. Being in the trenches, it was really interesting in terms of timing and where we ended up filming. Both my features were actually shot in Atlanta, so it was coming back to this familiar place a second time, almost eight months later to do this film.

For me, I learned so many things on Tangled. The biggest thing was making sure I allowed time with the comedy and making sure we had the time because it was such a quick schedule for both films that I did. It’s really hard to pinpoint that sweet spot because you don’t have time to do seven takes every time. We weren’t rushed in a bad way—obviously, you know what you’re getting into when you have this very short turnaround time, but that was one thing I learned. It’s prioritizing how we were scheduling our days so that if we lost time at the end of the day, the more important scenes were scheduled in a way where we could spend more time with them. That was one of the many things I took with me into this film. They both happened to have comedy elements to them.

Tammin: I’ll interject because I’ve directed before as well. It’s really hard to make a movie in this amount of time and make it good. The fact that I’ve watched it and am entertained, and I really enjoyed the film is a feat within itself. There are so many little things that lace up a film that we don’t really get time to do.

I don’t know if Traci feels this way, but most of the time, it’s like, “How am I telling the story? Have I been able to tell the story?” You don’t get time for bells and whistles. You don’t get time for the really cool shots that you want to do. It’s about making something. Traci was able to make it so much more. That’s why I think there’s so much potential for her in the future because to make something like this on a shoestring budget, imagine what she could do or make with 30% more. People don’t understand how hard it is to make a film and how hard it is to make it make sense.

Traci: In less than three weeks. It was crazy.

Tammin: It was fifteen days. We had no time to learn dances, but that’s just how these films are made.

PC: Tammin, in addition to the incredible work that you’ve done on screen, you’ve also written, produced, and directed. How have your experiences behind the camera impacted the way that you approach your work as an actress and interpret characters/scripts and vice versa?
Tammin: I know a little too much to be dangerous, but also not enough. That’s my problem. I’m a very controlling person, so giving that over to someone is a big deal for me. I think I directed something for Sony a while ago. It was ten episodes. I realized that when you’re acting, you have to think. You can’t be a hundred percent in your character; you always have to be 20% out. You always have to be thinking, “Where is my light? Am I hitting my mic when I’m really emotional?” You have to be 20% out technically or you’re going to not only cost the production time, you’re also going to cost a performance because I hate ADR. Not that I hate the work, but I hate it because you’re not in the moment. You’re not connected to the other people. A lot of ADR is crying. I find that really frustrating because you’re in ADR, fake crying.

Being a director, writer, or producer, I’m always thinking, “Is this going to screw up production where I’m standing?” It’s weird to be in a scene where you’re crying over something, but going, “I have to tuck my hair back because it’s not going to match the other angle.” If you’re a good technical actor, you can always be thinking outside the character while you’re shooting.

PC: Traci, like you were just saying, time is such a luxury, especially when you’re working on an independent feature, but the dark comedy genre lends itself to improvisation. How were you able to find those moments where you could encourage and guide your cast to elevate the material and improv what felt the most authentic to their characters?
Tammin: She didn’t have a choice. [laughs]

Traci: I was just going to say that. [laughs] There were a couple of scenes—and Tammin knows those well—that I knew were really emotional. When you see them, it lends to the comedy in the darker tone that you’re talking about in a really fun way. But when we shot it, it was a closed set. We were going to let the camera run and I was going to be quiet and we were just going to do it.

I knew those days when it was improv, but maybe not comedy in the sense of a joke; it was more about leaving time for the emotional moments that lend themselves to what we’ve been talking about from the beginning: creating that empathetic anti-hero. There were a couple of key moments in the film where we specifically left more time, which even of itself was very, very limited. Tammin knocked it out of the park.

Tammin: Credit to Traci, too, because I know what I have in my arsenal, but when you meet new directors, they don’t know what the actor can bring. I know for myself, luckily being in front of the camera for 22 years, that when it comes to anything really emotional, those are my best takes. Traci was able to work with me, and not all directors do that. Some do. Most try to because they want the best performance.

I know, as a director, she’s not going to play those entire scenes that are emotional in a wide shot; she’s going to play them in the medium or closeup. I asked her, “Can we do my takes first? Can we do the closeup and the medium shots first and then we do the wide?” She was like, “No problem.” I’m happy to do all the wide all the time when it comes to comedy and that stuff, but when it’s emotional, you run out of that gas and juice. I mean, how many times can you just be sobbing?

Traci: And screaming? You were screaming at times.

Tammin: I realized as an actor, you’ve tricked yourself too much. The first two times feel real for me. You feel like you’re really connected with someone. You lost your daughter. You feel that. The third time, you’re trying some tricks. But by the fifth time, you’re thinking of your dead dog or burying your parents. At some point, you’ve lose the connection because you can’t trick yourself anymore. You’re like, “This isn’t my daughter and she’s not leaving. Where else can I pull from?” I don’t ever like acting feeling like I am thinking of something that’s not within the scene.

PC: This industry has made slow progress in terms of representation and inclusion. We need to see more female filmmakers in front of and behind the camera, which this project undoubtedly does. For both of you, why do you think it’s taken the industry this long? Who were the women in your own life who shaped the storytellers that you are today?
Traci: That’s a great question. It’s interesting how our business can hop on trends and trains pretty quickly with certain things. A lot of things are swept under the rug for too long. I spent a decade on set before I was directing and production designing. I worked with two female directors in that entire decade. There was a lack of opportunities. The people who were gatekeepers and making those decisions were either not thinking about it or going back to their well of contacts that they’d worked with and maybe weren’t open-minded to new, fresh faces. That’s changing now and the conversation has shifted. I don’t think it is where it needs to be yet. There’s still a lot of room to grow.

In terms of women that have influenced me in my life, I’m really inspired by Martha Coolidge. She’s an incredible director. She’s a mentor of mine that I met in film school, and she’s made movies like Real Genius and Valley Girl with Nicolas Cage. She’s been my champion. If I’m ever in a situation where I feel I need that support or that person to talk with, I can always give her a call. It’s been such a beautiful relationship to have that support from another woman who is there cheering me on. That’s one of many. Obviously, not just directors—there are other women in my life who have inspired me, like my mother. That’s a bit corny, but there are so many role models and people that have helped support me to get where I am today.

Tammin: I’m such an activist in so many ways. I have been to many rallies in the last week. I think the problem is that the gatekeepers are mainly males. That is one of the biggest issues. I think that women need to be elected into higher positions who can make more decisions. That’s one of the biggest issues that we face.

I am not anti-men. I have a husband. I love men a lot, but they have so many opportunities, and they always have. We just haven’t. We’re definitely on the lower scale in everything. There’s still wage disparity. We’re still being paid less. I’m raising two girls, and I don’t put up with any of that. It’s getting the jobs, but it’s also women putting their hands up and not feeling afraid that their voice is not worth anything.

I’ve been in many writers’ rooms and when I put my hand up to say something, no one really listens because I’m one of the only females in the room. There just needs to be more women in writers’ room. There needs to be more women making decisions. But women also have to speak up and put themselves in those positions. But also, men can speak up for us and need to be loud—I tell my husband that all the time. It’s one thing to be like, “I support my wife.” It’s another thing to be at the marches with us. Men need to put their hands up, too, because women are extremely capable.

It’s very tragic that we don’t tell as many female stories because I don’t know if I want to go to movies and just see an all-male cast, written by a male writer, from a male perspective. I want to see all the different versions of it. I also want to see myself in the movies that I watch. It’s really important to push that.

Traci: Women also need to support one another within this community because ultimately it is a business. It’s a competitive nature because it’s been so selective and so hard to get certain positions. It’s super competitive. I’m not going to say that I’ve never had resistance from women in positions of power, so it’s unfortunate. I just want to keep the conversation going, and I want us women to mentor those who are rising up. I’m looking to better myself and mentor other women, too.

Tammin: You’re right. I don’t fully believe that women support women. We say it loud and proud, “We support other women,” but I think we’ve been trained to compete. The most negative comments that I’ve ever had on any of my social media are from women who are judging me—women who judge other women because they judge themselves. It’s hard to live in this world as a woman. When you judge yourself so terribly, you also bleed all over other people. I don’t know if women fully support other women. That’s definitely a topic to tackle.

PC: There’s a pivotal moment at the end of the film where it shows the duality of Tammin’s character. Can you both talk a bit about filming that final scene?
Traci: That was a crazy day. Without giving too much away, we won’t ruin the ending or spoil the ending for anyone who hasn’t seen the film yet, but I knew that that was a very emotional scene, so we started the day with that one. We were in this particular location where we were filming the dance competition. We were there for a couple of days, so I knew, based on my conversations with Tammin that we weren’t going to film that scene last because you want to feel like you have the time to get into it. We built to it. It wasn’t the first scene we shot that day; we did something right before that, so she had a chance to get into it. Then, I left her alone.

Tammin: I was this weird animal ready to kill. I was walking around. No one was talking to me. It’s weird because I pride myself on being nice, open, and loving, but when I have to do those scenes, I don’t want anyone to talk to me. Then, people come up and they’ll be like, “Your hair looks good today.” I was like, “Don’t talk to me. I don’t want to feel good. I have to feel terrible. I have to feel uncomfortable. I don’t want you to be nice to me.” People were a little shocked. I was method for a day.

Traci: But you were lovely. By all means, everyone has a different way into whatever it was, but that particular moment I knew was the most difficult because it was such a mix of heartbreak and fulfilling a dream, but also potentially losing your daughter and all of these sorts of emotions and how to deal with it. Tammin, you did it with such grace.

Tammin: It’s hard to watch that stuff because it never feels, when you watch it back, how bad it felt inside. When you’re watching it, you expect that you’re going to feel that pain again and you don’t. It’s really hard to watch that stuff back because you’re like, “I don’t feel anything.”

PC: The film tackles so many universal themes. Was there one in particular that hit home for each of you?
Tammin: Mine was loss, and that means so much to me. That beginning scene, I didn’t really have to do much preparation for because my nine-year-old is already pulling away from me. People don’t tell you that when you become a parent that every year you lose the kid you knew. My four-year-old is not the same child as she was when she was two. She’s not going to be the same next year. You’re losing a version of who they are every year. There’s so much loss. They are growing, but you never have that person that you were in love with. It’s now a different person that you’re in love with. There’s so much loss in parenting that you never even think about. You think about all the great things, which is great, too, but there’s a lot of letting go.

Traci: I really identified with the loss of a dream. For me, I played semi-professional club soccer for a long time. I thought that was going to be my dream. Filmmaking wasn’t even in the picture at the time when I was younger, but it ultimately changed due to health issues that I had when I was younger. That’s what happens to our main character, but it’s a lot more extreme. There’s no plan B for her.

In my case, I ended up finding something I loved even more, so it was more a happy ending. But I definitely identified with her struggle and feeling, “Am I enough?” Those are things that as artists, I’m sure Tammin and I can relate to. You have to put so much of yourself into something. There’s this sense of vulnerability in all the work that we do, so it’s not hard to take that personally and keep pursuing those dreams and not getting hard on yourself, too. Those are some of the themes I felt in the film reflected in my life.

Make sure to follow Traci (Instagram) and Tammin (Twitter/Instagram). Watch Blood, Sweat and Cheer on Tubi today.

Photo Credit: Erik Scherb (Tammin)