Pop-Culturalist.com

The dynamic duo of co-writer and director Matt Brown and star Matthew Goode delivers a gripping and compelling cinematic experience in their latest film, Freud’s Last Session.

In his final days, Sigmund Freud (Sir Anthony Hopkins), a recent escapee with his daughter from the Nazi regime, receives a visit from the formidable Oxford Don C.S. Lewis (Matthew Goode). On this day, two of the greatest minds of the twentieth century intimately engage in a monumental session over the belief in the future of mankind and the existence of God.

Pop Culturalist recently engaged in a conversation with Matt and Matthew about their work on Freud’s Last Session, their collaboration with Sir Anthony Hopkins, the intriguing debate between science and religion, and the art of embracing the subtleties and nuances of two of history’s greatest minds.

PC: Matt, this is a beloved story that has lived in different mediums. What you’ve done so brilliantly is find that balance between familiarity and creating something new and refreshing. One of the ways it feels very cinematic is its use of dream sequences. How early on did you realize you wanted to lean on those dreams to make it more cinematic?
Matt: When I first saw the script, I knew that was the approach I wanted to take with it. I thought it would let us into their inner lives in a way that would be crucial for it to work as a film. Finding that balance was the biggest challenge in the film, where it always needed to move the story forward in terms of their inner life and subconscious. That was always at the forefront of my mind, trying to figure out how to make those transitions as a filmmaker, which wasn’t easy. We’re an independent film. We shot everything in camera. The deer was in camera. Everything that looked like it would be CG or something wasn’t. That’s attributed to Ben Smithard, our cinematographer, who is amazing, and the actors who put up with us. [laughs]

Matthew: Except for the boat!

Matt: Right, the boat was not real.

PC: Matthew, there’s so much vulnerability that you need to tap into when you’re playing C.S. Lewis, especially with regards to his grief and PTSD. You brought so much nuance to that. I know you did an extensive amount of research for this role. As an actor, how did you create the space for yourself to dive into those elements with so much subtlety? How did you find that balance between preparation and living in the moment and reacting off what Sir Anthony Hopkins was giving you?
Matthew: I loved the research. It actually makes you feel a bit lazy when you have a normal role. [laughs] We should be filling that with as much stuff as I was learning when I was doing my research on Lewis. But there was a lot to his life that was quite tragic. But he was still this incredible human being. I think he got a lot of strength in life from his faith. But once you learn about his mother dying, having a bad childhood and schooling, and all that stuff, you’ve got to throw all that away and be present.

That was the one thing, especially as he’s getting ranted at quite a lot by Freud and in this great debate. But there’s a lot coming his way. It’s going to sound very stupid, but I need you to see his humanity while doing nothing and while he’s listening. He’s engaging while only listening. It’s an interesting exercise and it’s not easy.

Matt: It’s not easy. That is hard. That’s a really, really hard thing to do. Not all actors can do it in the way that Matthew did it, let’s put it that way. It was impressive.

PC: Matt, time is never a luxury when you’re working on a film, and you were shooting seven pages a day with two actors who are at the top of their games. As a co-writer and director, how did you create the space and trust on set where they felt comfortable to play and bring their interpretations of these characters to life on screen while covering so much material?
Matt: It was creating the space, as you said. Getting the crew on board early on to understand what was happening. When you have actors like Matthew and Tony, everybody brings their A-game. They’re very, very respectful. They gave us the space, and that was great. It’s not about having five producers sitting around the monitors; it’s about having nobody. We really tried to say, “Everybody steer clear.” I’m sure COVID protocols also helped a bit, funny enough. But it was the willingness of the actors to take chances and try things because we did try things and it was very exciting. A little scary, but exciting.

PC: Matthew, throughout the film, we see this intellectual debate between two of the greatest minds in history, and there’s a lot of unexpected humor in there as well. How much of that was on the page versus discovered on the day? How did working opposite Sir Anthony Hopkins challenge you as a storyteller?
Matthew: Anthony is my childhood hero. I was a little scared going into this because obviously he’s played C.S. Lewis before in Shadowlands. But he totally disarmed me, and we had a lovely time. I did a huge amount of preparation, so I knew all the lines of the script before we started. I didn’t know how we were going to shoot it. We shot it narratively, and it was a joy. But Tony has a tendency to bring that levity to some of these real people that he’s played. I would say that some of it isn’t on the page, but he knows what’s necessary. He has a great emotional gauge about where his performance is at and also what possibly he might need to draw out of me. It was a little bit of an acting masterclass, but I tried not to fan out too much.

PC: Matt, what else you’ve done so brilliantly with this screenplay is you’re able to present both sides of the argument between religion versus science without ever letting your own opinions or biases in, and it really encourages and challenges audiences to have those discussions themselves. Was that something that you were mindful of as you co-wrote this script? Why was that so important to you?
Matt: It was important to keep my voice out of it. That was incredibly important because I didn’t want it to feel biased. The loudest voices in the room always have agendas. Everybody’s got an agenda. I didn’t have an agenda with this other than to have a discussion. That was it. I needed to stay out of that in order for that to happen. That was always at the forefront, and I never wanted to lean too hard this way or too hard that way. It’s Freud’s Last Session and it’s Hopkins. He does do a fair amount of the talking, but when you have an actor as good a listener as Matthew, you feel his force constantly in this, and it feels pretty even. We spent a lot of time in editing to make sure both sides were presented.

Freud’s Last Session is out in select theaters in NY and LA.