Pop-Culturalist.com

Every once in a while, a film emerges that rises above entertainment, leaving a deeply meaningful impression. Sheridan O’Donnell’s debut feature, Little Brother, is one of those rare films.

The emotionally poignant Little Brother begins in the aftermath of Pete’s (Ettinger) suicide attempt, which prompts his overbearing father, Warren (J.K. Simmons), to enlist Pete’s younger brother, Jake (Diemer), to drive him from Albuquerque to Seattle for a family intervention. The brothers aren’t just oil and water—they’re fire and gasoline—and now they’re confined to a battered van for a 1,400-mile journey with no escape. As they traverse the American West, the two grapple with their tumultuous past and attempt to forge a new bond.

Philip Ettinger and Daniel Diemer are at their best in bringing the complexity and nuances of these fraught sibling dynamics to life. With raw vulnerability, they skillfully navigate the emotional highs and lows of two brothers trying to heal old wounds while struggling to understand each other. Their performances resonate deeply, offering a layered exploration of love, pain, and the bonds that tether us together.

Pop Culturalist had the pleasure of speaking with Sheridan, Philip, and Daniel about the important message behind the film, how they were vulnerable with one another, and more.

PC: Sheridan, first off, congratulations on your directorial debut. What an incredibly moving film you’ve all created. This cast is phenomenal. I understand you wrote personal letters to each of them. What made these actors the perfect fit for their roles? How did those personal connections play a part in bringing them on board?
Sheridan: That’s funny. How did you know about the letters? My producers joke about my famous letter-writing, but really, it came from the desperation of being an unknown director trying to convince very talented people to join my project. I knew that for my first film, I wanted it to be completely character-driven. I love films where you spend a lot of time with a small number of characters. One of my favorite films is My Dinner with Andre. I also love Linklater’s Before series. So, directorially, I thought, let me write something that I can hopefully pull off. Let me see if I can make two people interesting. Then, maybe I’ll write a film with 25 people and a six-million-dollar budget.

Because of that, the casting for this film was so, so important. I was very aware of Phil’s work from the brilliant film First Reformed. I also saw him in a Derek Cianfrance TV show called I Know This Much Is True, though I didn’t even realize he was in it because he’s physically so different. His performance was so transformative. It wasn’t until a friend pointed it out that I realized, and I was blown away. It was crystal clear to me that he had to play Pete. I wrote him a letter, and he agreed. We met, and it was instantly obvious that we shared the same taste and sensibilities.

With Dan, I hadn’t seen The Half of It, but when I met him, it was so clear to me how thoughtful and big-hearted he is. We were just talking about this in another interview—Dan is 6’4″, and he’s this big guy who looks like he could be on the Heisman Trophy. That dynamic was really interesting to me, but it was also clear that he had the emotional capacity for the role. As you saw in the film, there’s a lot of catharsis, and I knew he would bring the sensitivity and thoughtfulness that Jake required. His performance is like a soufflé—if it’s not spot on, it doesn’t work. But he brought such a beautiful sensitivity to it.

PC: Philip, there’s a powerful moment in the film where your character says he often feels like a tourist in his own body. You portrayed the nuances of those mental health struggles so brilliantly on screen, capturing the realities of this lifelong journey. I know you’re drawn to roles that challenge you to uncover the truth. What was it about Pete that spoke to you? What discoveries did you make about yourself while finding the truth of this character?
Philip: What I loved about Sheridan’s script is that everyone in the movie is just trying their best. There’s no right or wrong. Everyone is struggling with the tools they have and the roles they play within the family. I liked that Pete was someone—someone I relate to—who feels deep emotions, feels lonely, and doesn’t know who to share those emotions with. He makes jokes and tries to keep things light. There’s also that dynamic of having an older brother, younger brother, or sibling, where you’re still learning a lot from each other. On the surface, you could be labeled as one thing but actually represent something else. I thought that was so beautiful. It also felt very personal to Sheridan.

I tend to gravitate toward work that’s personal and that can help people feel less alone with their feelings when they watch it. It also resonated with me because of my own struggles with mental health and those of the people closest to me. I’m always trying to understand and navigate that better. Telling a truthful story that deals with mental health in an earnest way feels really meaningful—and that’s pretty badass these days.

PC: Daniel, another reason why this film is so impactful is how it shows that mental health affects not only those suffering from it but also those around them. Jake’s journey of discovering that you don’t have to fully understand what someone is going through to be there for them is incredibly transformative. You brought so much depth to that. How did you approach this character, especially in that pivotal moment when he lets his walls down and vulnerably admits to his brother that he needs him?
Daniel: So much of it is about openness. Like these guys, mental health has been a part of my life in many different ways—from friends who have dealt with it to my own personal mental health journey. It’s a story that I’ve been eager to engage with as an artist. As Phil said, Sheridan’s script is incredibly written, complex, and detailed, encapsulating all these different elements.

With Jake, it’s a completely different aspect. A lot of times, mental health stories focus solely on those dealing with it, which is so important. But Jake’s story gives us the chance to see how someone close to that is affected and how he’s been coping with the pain he’s experiencing. It doesn’t victimize either of them; it just shows how that pain sits within them. Sheridan captured that beautifully.

So, for me, it was about going in there, staying open and connected, and focusing on the heart and soul of these characters. I just stayed present in the moment.

PC: Sheridan, as the guys mentioned, the film beautifully contrasts light and darkness, finding humor in difficult situations, which makes it feel so grounded and true to life. How challenging was it for you to find that tonal balance? And why was it so important to you as a screenwriter?
Sheridan: I could never in my life write a straight comedy. For me, comedy comes from situations and character. The “a-ha” moment for me, when I was thinking of the idea and then writing it, was that it’s just Pete. It’s Pete and the dynamic between the brothers where that humor comes from. I really tried to honor that. I have an older brother, and we share some parallels to that dynamic. He’s a very funny guy, and I’m kind of a controlling guy who can be a little overbearing, so I was thinking of my brother a lot when I was writing this film and how he’s just so funny. I think he’s literally the funniest person I know.

That’s where the humor came from. When I thought of the idea and had Jake and Pete, I knew everything about them instantly. It was very strange, like a lightning bolt. I could have written a 600-page version of this script. It was very easy to sit in the voices of these people. The humor really comes from the characters. But I’m glad you mentioned it because that’s what I was hoping for. Yes, it’s about mental health, and it’s about suicide—that’s super important. But it’s also a super entertaining, fun, emotional journey.

Philip: Sheridan, did I ever tell you that I had my older brother record all of my lines before we shot the movie?

Sheridan: No, you didn’t.

Philip: I listened to it while I was driving.

Sheridan: That’s fascinating.

Philip: It was its own interesting experience.

PC: Philip, segueing from what you were saying earlier, Pete is the first to acknowledge that these contrasts exist. There’s such an emotional rollercoaster that you, in particular, take audiences on, where there are these introspective moments where you can feel his wheels turning, but also moments of outward humor. As an actor, how did you navigate that emotional range? How did you keep this character so grounded while shifting between those contrasting tones?
Philip: A lot of it comes from Sheridan’s writing and the dialogue he crafted. But what was also cool about these scenes is that because it’s two people in single locations, the circumstances are both sad and funny at the same time. In those environments, any scene can go in any direction. I feel like, depending on what Dan’s doing or how I’m feeling, there’s a free range to express myself. It’s funny—I was just doing a Q&A for another movie I did, and it’s similar. Sometimes, when you’re playing a scene so straight, it gets a big laugh just because of the circumstance. So, when you’re shooting a movie like this, some of the best laughs come when you see it with an audience. You realize something was funny when you didn’t even think of it that way at the time.

PC: There’s something magical about these festival runs.
Philip: That’s what’s cool about making a movie. We do a lot of different takes, then you pick a take and assemble it with the music, and that all shapes how a scene turns out. But so much of it felt like walking a tightrope. It was just me and Dan for almost the entire movie. The best moments were when we’d finish a scene and think, “I don’t even know what the hell that was. I hope it was something.” Usually, that’s when it’s the best—when you’re unaware and just stumbling through it together.

PC: Daniel, throughout your career, you’ve often collaborated with storytellers who are making their directorial debut with deeply personal projects. How does working in that environment push you creatively and open up your own creative process?
Daniel: For me, so much of meaningful art comes from passion and interest. Working with writer-directors or directors making their debut, there’s so much they want to tell and so much story they have to give. It gives me an incredible entryway into humanity and the lives of the characters, which informs so much of my performance. It’s a deeply collaborative space. There’s nothing better than working with people who are as passionate as you are. I try to approach all my projects with that mindset. Sheridan has been an incredible example of that. He cares so deeply about everything we’re discussing. To be able to fully enter that space and immerse myself in it is such a gift.

PC: Sheridan, you’ve mentioned before that this film has given as much to you as you’ve given to it. It was during the filmmaking process that you discovered you had a rare eye condition called RP, which you were very open about with the entire team. How did embracing your own vulnerabilities help create the space for the actors to reach the emotional depths needed for their characters, and what impact did that have on you?
Sheridan: That’s a very, very good question because it was certainly on my mind. As you mentioned, I was diagnosed with a degenerative eye disease, retinitis pigmentosa (RP), in the middle of developing the script, in January 2020. For a brief time, I questioned whether I should even continue in film because I was diagnosed as legally blind. I can still see with my central vision, but my peripheral vision is diminished. What got me back on the horse was realizing that I was pushed into a corner in a very clarifying way. I thought, if I give up on this movie, it may never exist. A lot of people say they’re trying to write a film that’s never been written, but it really felt that way for me.

A couple of months later, I went “public” about my disability, and I was very scared. I wondered, “What are the actors going to think of me?” But what I drew upon, not just in this film but throughout my work and life, is vulnerability. I had a difficult childhood and a lot of personal turmoil. Discovering film and the art of storytelling was powerful for me because I realized that all the stories I had, which felt like scars, were actually opportunities to share my experiences with the world.

So, I decided to be open about it. In the letter I wrote to Phil, and with every cast and crew member we brought on board, I disclosed it. I saw it as an opportunity to share something personal about me, hoping it would invite others to do the same and draw on their own lives. In my opinion, that’s when the film really starts to sing—when everyone is putting so much of themselves into it. It wasn’t just the cast; it was the crew as well. People would come up to me and say, “I had a friend who passed away.” Everyone was operating on the same level of vulnerability.

I like to think that, in some cosmic and bewildering way, that experience made this film deeper and richer. I believe my disability enhances my perspective as an artist, and I think Little Brother is a testament to that.

PC: Credit to you for being so open, Sheridan, because that openness definitely starts from the top down. Philip and Daniel, there’s a component of filmmaking that’s meant for entertainment, which this film absolutely is, but the films that really stand the test of time are those that have something to say. Having brought Little Brother around the festival circuit, what has it been like experiencing these conversations firsthand and seeing the impact you’ve created with your performances?
Philip: Going off what Sheridan said, film and art, in general, have been mediums where I’ve felt less alone with my feelings because I’ve seen people vulnerably show their emotions. The making of this film was amazing because you could feel how everyone involved, from the cast to the crew, had dealt with this subject matter in some way. That, in itself, was cathartic and healing.

Playing this film in front of an audience has been beautiful. Statistically, we’ve all dealt with or been around people who have struggled with mental health—whether it’s ourselves, our families, or our friends. Because we’ve tried to be so vulnerable, it invites the audience to be vulnerable too. Not only is it amazing to create something that affects people, but I’ve also felt less alone because we all struggle. The human experience is beautiful but also challenging. It’s incredible to make something that connects people and makes them feel more similar than different, which is a beautiful thing.

Daniel: You said that perfectly. For me, it’s been very similar to how I take in movies. So much of it is entertainment and escapism, but a big part of it is also figuring out more about myself and the people around me. We’ve had so many incredible examples of movies that have done that for me and allowed me to feel safe.

Working with collaborators like these two guys and the entire cast and crew, it was really about saying, “Let’s take this seriously. Let’s give everything to it.” If we do that, and have the vulnerability to bring the audience along with us, hopefully they’re able to learn from it, feel less alone, and feel recognized and seen through it.

Make sure to follow Sheridan (Instagram), Philip (Instagram), and Daniel (Instagram). Little Brother is available wherever you stream movies.